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Post by davidaccampo on Jun 28, 2006 1:47:25 GMT -5
OK guys -- I've been hard at work on this with my writing partner, Jeremy Rogers. Vostok is based on a treatment we wrote a few years ago. It was actually well-received by an editor at Platinum Studios, but rejected by the Hollywood side of the studio for being too depressing. We looked at the treatment again recently and decided we HAD to do this as a graphic novel. I had always pictured it as such. I'm not going to give you guys the full treatment, as I don't see this one as a traditional workshoppy type of thing (I have other stuff that I will need workshopped, coming up soon). This is probably something I'm going to see if Nolan wants to include in his anthology. But, I want to get a reaction to the first issue. A "test screening" so to speak. Picture it as an illusrated first issue or first chapter of a graphic novel, and let me know what you think. Questions, concerns, and,of course, lavish praise ( ;D ) are encouraged. It's a full 22-page script, so rather than post it here, I've put it on my website in HTML format. Here's the link: www.laughingmadscribes.com/vostok_01.htmThanks, Dave
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Post by nolan on Jun 28, 2006 2:07:16 GMT -5
Dave,
I'll check it out this weekend okay and I'll give you guys some feedback.
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Post by jayvee on Jun 28, 2006 8:39:48 GMT -5
I've got work and then I'll come back and tell you what I think.
I've got a question first, though, how much of a treatment did he have when you started?
Was it a whole script or just the plot and some underpinnings or what?
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Post by davidaccampo on Jun 28, 2006 11:37:51 GMT -5
It was about a three page, densely written outline. It basically covered all the characters' motivations and all the significant plot points from beginning to end. Jeremy and I had discussed the concept, the characters that might be involved, and then developed what might happen over the course of the story. THen we wrote it all out.
I'll share the treatment with you guys -- I just wanted to try something different first. I wanted to see how it reads as though you're picking up the first chapter of a miniseries without knowing how it all ends up.
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Post by jayvee on Jun 28, 2006 14:58:49 GMT -5
Then don't spoil it~!
I gotta eat my lunch and take a shower and I'm goin' balls deep.
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Post by jayvee on Jun 28, 2006 18:02:25 GMT -5
Page 3, Panel 1: Does a drilling team really have such precision control that they could be careful not to breech the lake? I thought drilling was sort of a roundabout science where they give or take a several hundred feet in terms of their target? I could be wrong but having a drilling team be "careful" seems somewhat odd.
Page 3, Panel 3: There should be flashbulbs. A real media circus here. I don't get enough of that impression from reading the scene description.
Page 10, Panel 2: Freeman becomes the most interesting character already.
Page 15, Panel 3: It's a nitpick, but I think you should replace the word "pen" with "permanent marker." I think a Sharpee would show up scribbled over the poster a little better than a regular pen. Maybe you meant a Sharpee but it wasn't clear, reading the page.
Page 16: There's something about William that I don't like. Valerie, too. I like the concept, it's romantic and all that, but I don't buy him going on the expedition if he's having doubts. If he was single-mindedly in love enough to go on the mission, he's not going to question that decision until the moment he's gone so far that he can't come back. And then he's gonna flip out. And her, allowing him to kill himself just because she's going to die... It's too selfish. It's too, "if I can't be alive, nobody can!" for my tastes. The concept breaks down in the details.
The dynamic you should have, as opposed to them casually discussing mutual destruction, is her protesting his presence and him telling her that he's going regardless. Maybe he pulled some strings and went behind her back to get a ticket. Like he's really wanting to show her that he cares, maybe triggered by an event from his past or lingering doubt as to whether or not he can actually go through with it. Maybe he's someone everybody always said couldn't finish what he started so going on this one-way-trip is like a catharsis for him, as well, merely using her as the vehicle for the excuse that will exonerate him.
Valerie's psychology and background are great, up until she casually allows him to go. She should be mad as Hell that he'd waste himself on her; not because she's got self-esteem issues, but because he's wasting the gift of life when she had no choice to waste hers. Fate took that decision out of her hands. They ought to be arguing, as opposed to fussing over a bottle of pills.
Page 17, Panel 4: The line about going to the bathroom seems awkward against the drama you've built. Maybe you meant the line as a tension breaker, I'm assuming you did, but it's not a very good one. Personally, I think the whole passage would work much better if shortened to simply, "This is it, team. Your last chance to back out was ten minutes ago" or something to that effect.
Page 18, Panel 1: You're going to have to have a super talented artist to get this panel to work the way it needs to without having to do more exposition yourself. It's pretty ambitious.
Page 18, Panel 4: A re-ascertion of Beck's geekiness? Valerie needs to be portrayed as a sassy lass with brain cancer? The aside between Valerie and Beck took me out of the scene, like you were trying too hard to have comaradarie between the team members. I think more dramatic panels of the team standing around, looking nervous as they prepare to descend, would have better served the narrative.
Page 19, panel 1: Why LESS when night comes and the temperatures drop? Wouldn't it be MORE, because it's colder and the ice is more solid?
Page 20: Beck and Walcott seem like bitter old lovers rather than warring men who've stepped on each other's toes too many times.
Page 22, last panel: Good cliffhanger, though the last two pages seemed rushed. A lot of things were happening really fast that I thought you missed out on some good character moments as they took off, particularly between Valerie and Will. Think about extending the script another page... It'd be worth it for those final moments.
Overrall thoughts and impressions: The story itself is compelling. There are enough elements for me to stay interested and alert just by reading the script. This works really, really well in graphic novel form. The constant cuts might not translate so well as film because it'd all have to happen in a relatively short period of time, but it's slick shit in panels.
Granted, what's in Vostok will make or break your story, but the first chapter is near perfect.
A passing question: Is the Lorelei a reference to something? It sounds familiar.
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Post by ipuertoricanpony on Jun 28, 2006 20:56:28 GMT -5
-I'm not quite sure I understand this drill...it uses boiling water, yet it needs a drill bit at the front? wouldn't it need water spouts?
-by the way, i can see why they said it was depressing. first off, i know doom is coming, but that's not the obvious depressing matter for me. all of the character are already aware of the doom. it's at one constant level, and to be honest i want the action to start already because i could really care less about any of the characters. there isn't a single redeeming character in this, except maybe for the dying wife and the husband. now, see, this brings me to the characters...
they're scientists, right? i'm sorry, but i dont' buy it. they read as action heroes to be. they're character traits seem present only to create plot points to be addressed later on. another problem i have is...i wouldn't trust this crew to navigate an oil tanker, much less a vehicle funded by nasa. do you realize how much physical training nasa puts its astronauts through? top physical condition. but beck has a whiskey bottle? one of your scientists has a brain riddled with brain cancer? so here's nasa going yes, let's throw all of these billions of dollars and possibly one of the greatest discoveries known to man and throw it all down the toilet. could we get mentally and physically qualified personnel? sure, but where would the drama be? this is the age of reality shows. your scientist are concerned more with their personal dramas on stage than with science. i mean come on, this is supposed to be, in the script, one of the most monumentous events in human history? what do we get? do we get a sense of honor, wonder, anything lifting from them? no, we get bitterness.
"i want it to be mine," says beck. scientific progress for the sake of revenge. and walcott has an action figure? sure it can be a funny line, but come on. he's got an action figure?
i'm sorry, but this to me is an action story with bits of science and soap opera dramatics thrown in to give some justification to the possibly interesting visuals coming later on. but that's about it for me.
ernesto
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Post by jayvee on Jun 28, 2006 21:05:38 GMT -5
I got the impression that it was a private company doing the dig and NASA was only there for government posterity.
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Post by davidaccampo on Jun 28, 2006 22:09:09 GMT -5
-I'm not quite sure I understand this drill...it uses boiling water, yet it needs a drill bit at the front? wouldn't it need water spouts? We're calling it a drill because of the way it shoots the water. There's a spinning bit, but it is used to fire the boiling water in a drill-like pattern. I do mention the water spouts in one of the descriptions. The "drill" format bit is made up, but the cryo-bots using the boiling water to melt the ice are real hypothetical robots that JPL (private company) are designing. I saw an artist conceptual sketch and it has a cone shaped nose, which is what I wrote in the artist's notes. -by the way, i can see why they said it was depressing. first off, i know doom is coming, but that's not the obvious depressing matter for me. all of the character are already aware of the doom. it's at one constant level, and to be honest i want the action to start already because i could really care less about any of the characters. there isn't a single redeeming character in this, except maybe for the dying wife and the husband. now, see, this brings me to the characters... Oh, I never said it wasn't depressing -- it's meant to be a dark character drama. So my question with the script is whether or not you'd be interested in following them. So your comments are helpful. See, I personally LOVE Freeman. He's a great character, and you guys are only getting the tip here. Of course, if I turn you off of them now, you might stop reading, so I need to consider that. And, I gotta say, personally, Beck is stealing the show more than I thought he would...but, hey, I'm writing characters I'd want to read. they're scientists, right? i'm sorry, but i dont' buy it. they read as action heroes to be. they're character traits seem present only to create plot points to be addressed later on. another problem i have is...i wouldn't trust this crew to navigate an oil tanker, much less a vehicle funded by nasa. do you realize how much physical training nasa puts its astronauts through? top physical condition. but beck has a whiskey bottle? one of your scientists has a brain riddled with brain cancer? so here's nasa going yes, let's throw all of these billions of dollars and possibly one of the greatest discoveries known to man and throw it all down the toilet. could we get mentally and physically qualified personnel? sure, but where would the drama be? this is the age of reality shows. your scientist are concerned more with their personal dramas on stage than with science. i mean come on, this is supposed to be, in the script, one of the most monumentous events in human history? what do we get? do we get a sense of honor, wonder, anything lifting from them? no, we get bitterness. It is funded by a private company, as Jayvee mentions in his post. We'll make that clearer as it goes on. As for the scientists: you're getting a prep issue, so I think that's why you get the action-hero-to-be feeling. But can I ask specifically where you feel that? Are you assuming that we're leading up to a big adventure? Also, keep in mind that this is the first 22-pages, and there is a LOT of scientific exposition. I wanted some character moments to establish these people. There will be a lot of scientist moments as the story progresses. The scientists are each respected in their fields, and Beck has worked in the shadow of Walcott for a long time. Beck has spent a long time convincing everyone to go for this (as you will see later). It's also a one-way trip that NASA really needs to get the next trip going. So, yes, the stakes are different, and you might put a cancer patient on a suicide mission. Interesting that you'd assume that Beck is a drunk. I'd imagine that he could pass all the training necessary, then open up a bottle and sink into bitterness watching Walcott on TV. I'm taking note that you don't buy some of the details, but I know that any sci-fi thing can have the details ripped apart. This doesn't seem too far-fetched for me. Also, I'm after the characters. As you'll see, what you're calling a "set up for plot points" is actually the surface set up for a lot of character interaction that has some stuff that I don't think you guys would expect. "i want it to be mine," says beck. scientific progress for the sake of revenge. and walcott has an action figure? sure it can be a funny line, but come on. he's got an action figure? Yeah, sorry, I love the action figure line. This is a little bit in the future, and he's the media darling -- he's bringing NASA's credibility up, and he wants to go to Europa, but...they ain't gonna put him in a hole to die. And it's also interesting that you saw Beck's line as "revenge." I really see it as just wanting to get knowledge for the sake of it. To be the first without having to deal with the politics and camera time. After all, he knows the world won't know about him -- so it's not for a media spotlight. He's doing it for the pure joy of discovery. That's what we were thinking when we wrote his line. It's "his" because that's the best thing a scientist can do -- discover or uncover something brand new that is untouched. I'm curious to see if anyone else read it this way. i'm sorry, but this to me is an action story with bits of science and soap opera dramatics thrown in to give some justification to the possibly interesting visuals coming later on. but that's about it for me. Actually, this is good. Because this is NOT a big action story. Which means we're doing our job in setting you up for something completely different. The editor who loved the pitch called it "The Abyss meets The Big Nowhere," so that should give you a little idea. The set up has to be this way for the science and the exposition -- but remember this is 1/4 of the story...from here on out it's all about these characters and we'll really get into their stories. Sorry it wasn't for you, but thanks for reading it!
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Post by jayvee on Jun 28, 2006 22:15:39 GMT -5
Are you writing this for the Tide book or something else?
I also loved the action figure line. I mean, Charles Dickens has an action figure for Christ's sake.
Christ has several, too.
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Post by davidaccampo on Jun 28, 2006 22:32:55 GMT -5
Overrall thoughts and impressions: The story itself is compelling. There are enough elements for me to stay interested and alert just by reading the script. This works really, really well in graphic novel form. The constant cuts might not translate so well as film because it'd all have to happen in a relatively short period of time, but it's slick shit in panels. Jayvee, Thanks so much for the detailed feedback. I really appreciate it. Some of the smaller details I won't go over but you had some good points about the sharpie (I just assumed the artist would know what I meant, but I shouldn't assume...), the temperature, and a few other things. The flashbulbs are a good point -- now our treatment even made mention of the flash bulbs, but when it comes to illustrating that....how do you even get that? I mean, I know I've seen it done before, but I'm trying to picture it with our staging. Realistically, in black and white, you could draw a change in the lighting, but to capture it, you'd need multiple panels to show time and motion. I thought this would betoo hard, so I dropped the idea, just opting to show it's a press conference. The cameras should all be there -- and it's all sort of indicated. The "drill" I addressed in my other post -- I may not have made this clear -- it's just water, but the machine has to be careful to melt it slowly, sterilize itself, and wait for the ice above to solidify and continue down. I'll see if we can fit more about that in there, but we're already pretty packed with exposition and I didn't want to lose the character moments and bog the thing down. Basically, they had to stop drilling for core samples in Vostok because the lake is a high pressure environment, so even getting close is dangerous -- the lake could explode up thru the ice and endanger lives. That's why scientists (and this is all real) are developing these "melting" robots. As far as William and Valerie -- that's a good criticism and something I'll definitely consider. See, in my mind, they've already dealt with all of the arguing and screaming. They are two rational, scientific people. They're relationship is based on each knowing they're complete individuals -- If she chooses to die that way, it's her right. If chooses to do the same that's his right. I just picture this as the terms they've come to after a long series of fights. We're just meeting them in THIS moment, right before the launch. It's a moment of calm. That said, while they may SEEM calm about it, things will change for them...I don't see it as being too out of the way for William to go into this with doubts still on his mind. I guess I've known people who have barrelled into things without really understanding the full nature of it...this is about what people WILL do, and we'll see the ramifications as it goes on. Sigh...well, I'm bummed you didn't like the little banter toward the end. See, we wanted their to be some humorous interaction between the characters, even if it's a sort of gallows humor. These people wouldn't always be depressed. Just cuz Valerie has brain cancer doesn't mean she can't be sassy. I wanted to show that even as you go off to...eventually...die, you still find ways to make life liveable...joking around and such. And Beck's humor....man, I don't know...that cat just kind of took over the story for us. I now see him as this sorta cowboy scientist...he's funnier to me than I thought he'd be, and his whole disdain and disregard for the politics of the scientific community are funny to me. I actually like him a lot more than when I first proposed his character, which didn't have this flair. And I'll take the criticism of Walcott and Beck as "bitter old lovers"...actually I find that amusing. I like it. Anyway, thanks again for the comments. I'm wondering if I should show you guys the whole treatment -- if this seems like a set-up for a big sci-fi adventure, I kinda like that...since there will be adventure, and there will be science, but it ultimately becomes a dark character drama about these people and their totally unique situation.
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Post by davidaccampo on Jun 28, 2006 22:38:03 GMT -5
Are you writing this for the Tide book or something else? Well, I'll be honest -- Jeremy sent me the treatment after he dug it up from his files. At the same time, Nolan was proposing his anthology. I saw peanut butter and chocolate. You know...two great tastes... So my thought was to work up a first 22-page chapter and send that and the full treatment to Nolan. If it fits, great! If not, I have considered finding an artist and self-publishing. Or shopping it around to publishers. I think it would make a good black and white graphic novel. Jeremy and I have a short film that we're promoting (I put the website in the "Pimp My Work" thread), and I'm trying to think of how I can cross-market and use one to help me with the other. So there are all sorts of possibilities, but I like the idea of Nolan's magazine -- that'd be cool.
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Post by jayvee on Jun 28, 2006 23:11:14 GMT -5
The banter only grated because everything else was already so moody it seemed out of place. It just seemed like, with the rest of the story the way it was, a brooding team heading to their deaths would be more powerful than some awkward jokes. It could work; I was just pointing out that it didn't jive with everything else.
I sort of thought you might take it in a NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD direction, where they had a bunch of people confined in a small space with impending doom all around them (because that's what I would have done, given what I've seen so far). It's entirely concievable that they never even make it to their destination and simply die in the Lorelei, their mission failed.
And I'm serious about maybe splitting some of the exposition and character moments up, expanding them and turning this 22-page chapter into two separate chapters. There's a lot of stuff (the fights between William and Valerie, for instance) that would be great fodder to work with.
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Post by davidaccampo on Jun 28, 2006 23:36:07 GMT -5
Splitting it into two points is an interesting idea -- I think you're right -- this could easily be two issues.
However, I wanted to spend more time with everyone under the ice. It was my proposal to end the first issue with them heading down. And believe me, this script was a struggle. But i really wanted to have three issues to devote to these characters under the ice.
In fact, to give you some idea: I'm also thinking that -- as opposed to this issue -- each of the subsequent issues would be narrated by a different character. So you'd get much more of a character portrait in the subsequent issues...and we'd really be able to delve into what makes each one tick. That's why I thought we could save some of the will and val stuff for then.
It's definitely a thought, though. I'll bring it up to Jeremy for consideration. I think I just like the structure of one issue of set-up, followed by three issues of confinement, really building up that feeling of isolation and removal from the world...
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Post by davidaccampo on Jun 28, 2006 23:44:12 GMT -5
Night of the Living Dead might be close. Or have you guys ever seen that movie...I think it was called The Quiet Earth...? (might have the name wrong) Anyway, main character is one of the last people on earth, utnil he finds a couple others... I think Vostok is ultimately a study in these characters as confined, isolated, and removed from society. And there may be things down there, too. Or not. Depends on who you ask...
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