How should we raise awareness of comics?

[nolan]

We'd have an easier time if we worked together.

What do you suggest?

[destriarch]

There aren't many methods that are both cost-effective and efficient. Maybe if you start off with a free on-line comic at a site that propogates banner ads for its subscribers, then move into a PoD arrangement when you've got a fanbase? There's also banner advertising, and there are literally hundreds if not thousands of websites and forums that will let you post a breif advertising spiel on them for free. There are also banner ads, and some sites even have free banner exchanges.

If you've got money to splash around you could have a short run of posters made and send them out to comic stores for free in the hope that they will put them on the walls, but there you are up against the big boys, the Marvels and DC's and Top Cows. You'd better be damn sure the art is SUPERB or it won't get out of the cardboard tube.

Ash

[nolan]

I was talking about comics in general, not just PT.

[davidaccampo]

I don't see the problem as the "awareness of comics."

The public knows they're out there.

The problems are:

- They don't buy comics because they go to movie theaters, Video Rental Stores, and Bookstores. So they only see a crammed shelf of comics at the local Borders, usually with a teenage kid lying on the floor in front of it reading manga (not that that's a bad thing, except when one has to step around him).

- They don't go into direct market stores because direct market stores have giant-breasted life-size stand-ups of Witchblade circ 1997 that are dusty and faded from the sun.

- The few good stores that DO appeal to a general audience (like the wonderful Meltdown in Hollywood or Earth-2 in Sherman Oaks) still are filled with 90% super-hero books, and when Joe Q. Public asks their comic-reading buddy at work where they should start picking up Superman, said buddy then proceeds to explain the difference between pre- and post-crisis DC Universe (and recent events won't help this along).

- DC doesn't help things by making an increasinging inclusive line of comics.

- DC HELPS things by putting out Vertigo books. They need to find the next Sandman or Preacher. Something that appeals to another fringe culture and brings new groups in, groups who will tattoo themselves with characters and quotes...walking billboards for comics. ;-D

- Marvel helps things by getting people like Joss Whedon to work on books that do NOT cross-over with a billion other books.

Comics need to be in bookstores. But more importantly, they have to be seen by the public as a MEDIUM. People who say they don't read comics really mean they don't read super-hero comics, which is still ironic because they'll watch Super-hero movies. So the problem isn't super-heroes and it isn't comics themselves (because that's just a medium and isn't inherently flawed), but with the existing fans and the direct market.

But what does that mean? I'm a fan. I use the direct market. I like a lot of comics from indies to the super-hero mainstays.

Comics need to be made cool and WORTH seeking out. This was part of what happened in the 90's. It wasn't JUST the speculator market -- I have lots of friends who LOVED all the Image guys' X-men stuff, then their Image work, etc. I know lots of people who were raised on the 90's X-men and Spider-man cartoons, and feel they have an intimate knowledge of the lore. They always used to ask me about the comics, as though those there "holy grail" of this cool subject. And I swear that Sandman got more girls to read comics that 60 years of Wonder Woman. I personally used Sandman to get at least two women reading comics in the 90's. It was always a unique discovery for them: "oh, you mean there are comics like THIS?"

I had a point when I started typing. Now my head just hurts. I don't know how you raise awareness. People know about them. They just think they're all Spider-man and Superman, and they catch em when the next sequel comes to the multiplex.

Beyond that -- I guess you just have to make them the coolest counter-culture movement in town.

[nolan]

davidaccampo said:

I don't see the problem as the "awareness of comics."

The public knows they're out there.

The problems are:

- They don't buy comics because they go to movie theaters, Video Rental Stores, and Bookstores. So they only see a crammed shelf of comics at the local Borders, usually with a teenage kid lying on the floor in front of it reading manga (not that that's a bad thing, except when one has to step around him).

- They don't go into direct market stores because direct market stores have giant-breasted life-size stand-ups of Witchblade circ 1997 that are dusty and faded from the sun.

- The few good stores that DO appeal to a general audience (like the wonderful Meltdown in Hollywood or Earth-2 in Sherman Oaks) still are filled with 90% super-hero books, and when Joe Q. Public asks their comic-reading buddy at work where they should start picking up Superman, said buddy then proceeds to explain the difference between pre- and post-crisis DC Universe (and recent events won't help this along).

- DC doesn't help things by making an increasinging inclusive line of comics.

- DC HELPS things by putting out Vertigo books. They need to find the next Sandman or Preacher. Something that appeals to another fringe culture and brings new groups in, groups who will tattoo themselves with characters and quotes...walking billboards for comics. ;-D

- Marvel helps things by getting people like Joss Whedon to work on books that do NOT cross-over with a billion other books.

Comics need to be in bookstores. But more importantly, they have to be seen by the public as a MEDIUM. People who say they don't read comics really mean they don't read super-hero comics, which is still ironic because they'll watch Super-hero movies. So the problem isn't super-heroes and it isn't comics themselves (because that's just a medium and isn't inherently flawed), but with the existing fans and the direct market.

But what does that mean? I'm a fan. I use the direct market. I like a lot of comics from indies to the super-hero mainstays.

Comics need to be made cool and WORTH seeking out. This was part of what happened in the 90's. It wasn't JUST the speculator market -- I have lots of friends who LOVED all the Image guys' X-men stuff, then their Image work, etc. I know lots of people who were raised on the 90's X-men and Spider-man cartoons, and feel they have an intimate knowledge of the lore. They always used to ask me about the comics, as though those there "holy grail" of this cool subject. And I swear that Sandman got more girls to read comics that 60 years of Wonder Woman. I personally used Sandman to get at least two women reading comics in the 90's. It was always a unique discovery for them: "oh, you mean there are comics like THIS?"

I had a point when I started typing. Now my head just hurts. I don't know how you raise awareness. People know about them. They just think they're all Spider-man and Superman, and they catch em when the next sequel comes to the multiplex.

Beyond that -- I guess you just have to make them the coolest counter-culture movement in town.

I need your help to make it the coolest counter culture movement around.

Give me good projects for the PT anthology.

And write the best damn comic stuff you can.

And try to attract the best creative types you can to comics.

[davidaccampo]

Well, I never, ever give an explanation of Pre-crisis DC unless the prospective candidate has gone through an extensive testing process. ;D

Other than that: I want to write stories in every genre, and stories that don't involve heavy continuity.

I also want to DESIGN a kick-ass looking book. That's why I asked you before about who was designing PT. I'm of the camp that thinks that design is one of the most important aspects of making the books a cool piece of pop culture.

I can hand someone a copy of Ellis' Fell series. Each issue is self-contained, looks cool, and is well-designed.

We need to get PT to do the same thing -- cool serials that make you want to read the next issue, a variety of genres (and I'd recommend staying away from super-heroes altogether -- even parody or satire right now), some literary stuff -- all under a great looking cover.

Jeremy and I do graphic design work. If you want us to give a shot at a PT logo or basic cover design, let's talk.

Dave

[jayvee]

(and I'd recommend staying away from super-heroes altogether -- even parody or satire right now),

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

You need ONE superhero story to get people who like superheroes interested! Since they're the ones who're more likely to buy the book anyway!

[nolan]

jayvee said:

(and I'd recommend staying away from super-heroes altogether -- even parody or satire right now),

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

You need ONE superhero story to get people who like superheroes interested! Since they're the ones who're more likely to buy the book anyway!

If we get an awesome superhero story then I'd love to publish it.

And, hint hint, I love the postmodern deconstructive superhero stuff of the late 80s.

Actually, I'm doing sort of a superhero story (and since I'm the editor, what I write gets in). I'm either doing two or three stories, depending on how daunting this one story is (and its one I really freaking want to do).

[davidaccampo]

nolan said:

jayvee said:

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

You need ONE superhero story to get people who like superheroes interested! Since they're the ones who're more likely to buy the book anyway!

If we get an awesome superhero story then I'd love to publish it.

And, hint hint, I love the postmodern deconstructive superhero stuff of the late 80s.

Actually, I'm doing sort of a superhero story (and since I'm the editor, what I write gets in). I'm either doing two or three stories, depending on how daunting this one story is (and its one I really freaking want to do).

See, while I would like to READ that, I'm suggesting staying away from it to establish an anthology that is totally accessible to someone browsing in their local Barnes & Noble.

Doom Patrol didn't get new people into comics. Sandman did. And the first arc of Sandman didn't do it, either. Death did, and the subsequent stories that really had NOTHING to do with comics continuity, except an occassional nod.

While Doom Patrol and Animal Man were fantastic reads, I don't think new "deconstructions" of the sub-genre are a way to get readers in.

If you do want a super-hero story, I'd bury it in the middle, and make it more of an action hero thingy, like the way teh Wachowskis made a super-hero movie called the Matrix that no one thought was a Super-hero movie.

That's just my opinion, of course. But if I want to hand a friend a comic, it's either going to be:

a) something original and totally accessible

or

b) a totally iconic and familiar character (Spider-man, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman), but ONLY if I can give them a story that is completely self-contained and needs no knowledge of continuity. Dark Knight Returns. Batman Year One. All-star Superman. Superman For All Seasons. STuff like that.

[nolan]

I think there's probably room if a few really good superhero stories come by. Though, honestly, I doubt there will be many that are good enough.

But I'm trying to get a lot of diverse stuff.

I agree with you that that isn't stuff that would interest new readers but its important that we get long time readers interested as well. And we do that by giving them the kinds of superhero stuff that Marvel and DC won't touch as well as showing them that there are differnet genres while they have our issue in hand.

[davidaccampo]

My only thought there is that it's HARD to get the long time readers to a new property. There are, of course, exceptions. Everyone says Kirkman's Invincible is a must-read.

But on the other hand, I've never picked it up because while it might be a GOOD take on the super-hero, I've seen super-heroes ad nauseam, and I don't feel an urgency to pick it up.

I also admittedly play right into DC's and Marvel's hands because I'm more likely to pick up a new twist on an old character (with a great writer) than I am an unknown super-hero. And I think a LOT of long-time readers are like this.

But I DID pick up Kirkman's Walking Dead because it was different and it was getting great reviews. I'm also that way with lots of Vertigo books.

So, you can have a GREAT super-hero story, but it will be a new invention, and possibly a deconstruction, and it's harder for people like me to get into that than it is for people like me to say...oooh, a new genre-based anthology? Crime, horror, sci-fi! I like all those things!

You want your readers to see it like a movie -- to feel that this is not cloistered, fanboy reading.

But, buried in an anthology, you could probably get away with it.

I'd still try to position as more of an action-hero or paranormal story...if it's just a story about a guy with powers, but there are no capes and no obvious super-hero tropes, you'll have people interested but not turned off because it's "just another comic with super-heroes."

But who knows. I'd like to believe that as long as the writing is incredible, the book will sell.

[davidaccampo]

And speaking of raising awareness, I'm going to San Diego in a few weeks -- how can I raise awareness of Phosphorous Tide?

This is, unfortunately, a tough website to tell people to check out..."uh, it's pee-tee worshop-dot-probards-ninety-nine---"

Well, you get the gist. I'll be networking there, and I'd love to drop mention of PT, but...what can I say?

Have you guys thought about how you will raise the awareness of your book?

[nolan]

Do you want me to make some little flyers that you could hand out to people?

Or you could give them my email address, [e-mail]

[davidaccampo]

I would gladly hand out flyers or some kind of business card.

I will use your email addy, but it's better if I have some kind of pre-printed material.

Let me know -- we can work something out.

[nolan]

davidaccampo said:

I would gladly hand out flyers or some kind of business card.

I will use your email addy, but it's better if I have some kind of pre-printed material.

Let me know -- we can work something out.

Get on MSn and we'll chat. Thats the only message service I can get on right now.