How many words per panel per page?

[davidaccampo]

So, I'm in the middle of scripting something right now. I've mostly worked in film the past few years, so I'm taking great care right now to think about information on the comics page and how it's conveyed.

I remember Warren Ellis passing along some tip he had heard about how many words you could fit into a panel on a comics page. And i'm looking at a bunch of comics right now and trying to get a sense of it.

Does anyone else have any info on this? Any "rules of thumb" or tips?

Obviously, if you've got a 4-panel grid, you have more space to fit word balloons in each box...but what about a 9-panel grid. Or, I'm looking at pages with 11 and 12 panels on them, too.

So, anyone running into this same problem? How do you communicate this to your artist?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Dave

[jayvee]

Back in the day, I believe Wizard ran an interview with one of the X-Scribes at the time... I think this was 1994, maybe Scott Lobdell... It was around the time Scott and Jean got married, anyway, because they were analyzing the script for that issue and talking to the author... And the author said never to try and fit more than 25 words per balloon no matter how much space you've got.

In terms of where to start and stop word balloons, I just say the dialogue out loud and whenever there's a pause in speech (usually periods or ellipses), I'll make a new balloon. I think that helps your readers digest the dialogue at the same pace you've got your characters saying it. I hate writers who cram three sentences into a single balloon, basically.

[davidaccampo]

Cool, that's a good rule of thumb. But that's just per balloon...how about...how many of these balloons per panel? It seems weird -- unless you know exactly who your artist is, you kind of have to envision it yourself.

I mean, do you break up the word balloons in your script (the pauses you mentioned)? Or would you let the letterer determine that? I'm trying to think if I've read other scripts that actually say things like "balloon 1", "balloon 2", etc.

In other words, I know I can have a guy rant on a splash page, and even at 25 words per balloon, I could still fit 5 balloons on the page, trailing down.

That said, if I've got two people talking on a panel that takes up a quarter of the page, how many balloons? How much back and forth dialogue?

It seems like a tough call. That's why I'm curious as to how a writer works with the letterer -- I'd imagine that there might be some last-minute edits where the letterer comes back and says "you know, I just can't fit all of this dialogue without covering up the guys who are talking." And rather than having hte artist re-draw it, it's probably easier for the writer to re-write it.

Just something I'm pondering on my current script.

[jayvee]

I don't really think the letterer should have any control over what makes it into which word balloon. He/she's not the one telling the story. That's my job. That falls to me. I realize that one of their primary duties is to make the balloons unobtrusive to important aspects of panel art but if I'm going over it in my head as I write it and helping guide the artist as he/she works, it's going to be a non-issue when it comes to their job. I'll already have it done.

I break my balloons down in my script like this:

X: blah blah blah
X (yell): Blah!

Every (re)appearance of the name signals a new balloon.

Back and forth dialogues just get larger panels in my work.

I guess I've never really thought about the letterer having an extended role.

Re-reading my post, it appears as though I've overlooked a pretty standard aspect of the creation process. Am I selfish to write the letterer out of the loop in such a way?

[davidaccampo]

jayvee said:

Re-reading my post, it appears as though I've overlooked a pretty standard aspect of the creation process. Am I selfish to write the letterer out of the loop in such a way?

I don't necessarily think it's selfish -- but it may actually be something you're not taking advantage of. I mean there are skilled letterers out there, and they know how to lay the words on the page to best flow around. That's a skill you can use, just the same as using an artist to depict what you see in your mind.

However, where I think you may have a point is that if you don't write down the various beats (X: Blah. X: Blah blah). then the letterer may be breaking down the word balloons where he or she thinks they should be broken -- and that could have an adverse affect.

In my current script, I'm not doing what you're doing -- I'm just writing "X: blah -- blah blah." NOw I FEEL like I'm pacing it with natural breaks -- but what if a letterer gets it wrong?

Honestly, since it's all done on computers now, I imagine there can be a back and forth with the letterer -- kinda like a director sitting down with a film editor. USE their expertise to make sure your story is being told the way it's supposed to be told.

That said, I'd be curious to see how they do it in the big leagues. Where does Todd Klein (for example) fit into the creative process? Do some writers have notes for HIM? Is the editor responsible for making sure it all flows correctly when the letterer gets it?

I'd be curious to find that out.

[nolan]

I think that a speech ballooon can generally contain like 20-25 words at the most on a page where there's physical action.

For pages with emotional interaction, you can get away with a little more.

But the whole monologue during a fight thing is silly.

[davidaccampo]

nolan said:

I think that a speech ballooon can generally contain like 20-25 words at the most on a page where there's physical action.

For pages with emotional interaction, you can get away with a little more.

But the whole monologue during a fight thing is silly.

I'm talking more about dialogue scenes...two people in a room, talking back and forth...so it's not just how many words in the balloon, but how many balloons, and how big each one is...Would it still be 25 words per panel, even if the dialogue is going back and forth like:

"She wouldn't do that."
"Yes, she would."
"Nuh-uh."
"Would so."

Or whatever. You get the idea. Now I couldn't have 25 words in the first balloon, followed by a few short lines (like above) below them? Or are we just talking about how many words fit into a single balloon.

For example, I'm looking at an 8-panel page of the most recent Hellblazer. In one panel ( a larger one) there's back and forth dialogue that totals at about 40 words. But the small panels usually only have one person talking and it's approx. 20 words or less.

And how about box-captions?

Now i'm looking at another comic. First person narrative, five horizontal panels on the page with very little dialogue, but literally 15 caption boxes with a total of 219 (yes, I just counted) words.

That much dialogue wouldn't work, but the narrative boxes in the long, horizontal panels actually work alright.

I dunno -- i've worked in the film script format, I've written ad copy, poetry, prose, stage plays...and I swear this has got to be the most complex and conscious arrangement of words and images i've ever dealt with.

Gives me a whole new respect for comics writer and also the LETTERERS.

[jayvee]

I dunno -- i've worked in the film script format, I've written ad copy, poetry, prose, stage plays...and I swear this has got to be the most complex and conscious arrangement of words and images i've ever dealt with.

Amen.

I don't think there's a solid answer to the question, though. We can debate until we're blue in the face but it all boils down to how you're pacing your book and what works best with each page (like trying to leave a minor cliffhanger or point of interest on the last panel of every page so people can't wait to see what's on the next).