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Post by nolan on Jul 3, 2006 0:56:40 GMT -5
Lets combine comics and politics here.
Which side of this debate are you on and why?
And, as creators, how can we handle this idea in a different/better way then Marvel did?
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Post by davidaccampo on Jul 3, 2006 4:33:49 GMT -5
Heheh, I'll be honest here...
While being Anti-registration seems very American and has quite the appeal of freedom, when I look at it for the real world, the liberal in me can't compare it to anything but gun control...
I mean realistically: I see police officers and security guards carrying weapons, and I feel OK because they have a lot of training and rules they have to follow.
Now, I walk down the SAME city street, and I see guys in ski masks with the same weapons, and...sorry, I don't care if they TELL me they're here to help -- I'm wondering what they're hiding.
Um, were we talking about real world here?
Cuz if it's just supposed to be for the Marvel Universe -- I dunno...the cities been saved by the masked heroes dozens of times. Maybe it would be different for their cities.
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Post by jayvee on Jul 3, 2006 14:56:50 GMT -5
What's next...? Registering who can bench 500 pounds? Registering whose fast?
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Post by davidaccampo on Jul 3, 2006 16:14:56 GMT -5
What's next...? Registering who can bench 500 pounds? Registering whose fast? Sooo, you'd be OK with a guy in a ski mask walking around with a nuclear device strapped to him as long as he said he was a good guy?  |
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Post by davidaccampo on Jul 3, 2006 16:18:39 GMT -5
And, as creators, how can we handle this idea in a different/better way then Marvel did? Just saw this part of the question. I actually think that Marvel's doing a fine job with it. Not talking about individual writers and their approaches, but as a line-wide concept, it seems to me that they're presenting both sides carefully, if a little on the anti-registration side -- though that's natural, I think, given that this is not just a law, but stories of our "friends" (so to speak) being negatively impacted by said law. |
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Post by jayvee on Jul 3, 2006 22:07:48 GMT -5
Would it make a difference if he was a "good guy" or a "bad guy" if he had a nuclear bomb...?
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Post by davidaccampo on Jul 5, 2006 1:54:09 GMT -5
Would it make a difference if he was a "good guy" or a "bad guy" if he had a nuclear bomb...? That's kinda my point. We're assuming this is a world where this occurs. So if I have a choice between a guy in a mask who asks me to trust him, and a guy with stamped documentation that says "authorized to wear this nuclear device," then I'm gonna opt for the latter option. ON the other hand, if hte guy in the mask had already saved my life personally a bunch of times, I'd be more likely to say "hey, just leave the dude alone." |
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Post by nolan on Jul 5, 2006 3:30:00 GMT -5
A lot of people on Talk@ feel that the pro reg side were treated in a less then sympathetic way.
But seriously...lets get to how we can do this better.
If we aren't hampered by the rather conservative corporate policies of Marvel, established characters and public whininess, what can we do?
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Post by dragonaces on Jul 5, 2006 12:16:50 GMT -5
I have the opinion that as long as the information wasn't available to the general public...why not. Here's the catch, if they are an American Citizen then they should register with the American government. Logan/Wolverine, however, is Canadien and therefore cannot be forced to register with the American gov't yet he continues to play on our soil. Does this mean we now have to consider a superhero passport? Or any superhero that is not an American Citizen that uses their powers/abilities on American soil should be considered an illegal superpowered alien?
If America wanted the super hero registration act to be in place then they need to also set standards and benefits for hero's that are American citizens. They can't force a British, Canadien, Japanese, Mexican hero to register with a country they aren't citizens of and therefore they should outlaw powers being used by them.
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Post by davidaccampo on Jul 5, 2006 22:09:53 GMT -5
A lot of people on Talk@ feel that the pro reg side were treated in a less then sympathetic way. But seriously...lets get to how we can do this better. If we aren't hampered by the rather conservative corporate policies of Marvel, established characters and public whininess, what can we do? First -- corporate policy has a negative connotation. These guys have a vested interest in all their characters, which in this instance, actually HELPS the story. See, if you let go of any need to take care of the character, what MOST writers would do is turn Iron Man into a lackey or megalomaniac and just have him cater to opportunity, etc. * And that is LESS interesting than what Marvel is doing because they NEED to make sure that BOTH Iron Man and Captain America are sympathetic characters. Therefore, the corporate policies actually work to ensure that they are working hard to present both sides as evenly as possible. I think that the pro-reg side is an uphill battle -- anti-reg is the more romantic angle, and if we like and/or empathize with ANY of the anti-reg characters it automatically makes the pro-reg look like friends who are selling out. But I'd like to see how the story moves as it continues. Specifically, when the Iron Man series catches up, I want to see how they play that protagonist. It's easy to make Stark or Pym seems traiterous in the main series -- but they still have to publisher Stark as the heroic lead in Iron Man. That will truly be interesting to me. Dave * Just think about other stories that use "analog" characters and then pit super-heroes against super-heroes in a "more realistic" story. |
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Post by jayvee on Jul 6, 2006 8:18:04 GMT -5
Well, with the inclusion of the Green Goblin as one of the government's superhero hitmen (FRONTLINE #2), I find it harder and harder to believe that the pro-reg side is being treated as equally sympathetic...
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Post by davidaccampo on Jul 6, 2006 15:13:26 GMT -5
Well, with the inclusion of the Green Goblin as one of the government's superhero hitmen (FRONTLINE #2), I find it harder and harder to believe that the pro-reg side is being treated as equally sympathetic... Because that's the only place where Marvel can do it -- SHIELD. I imagine Nick Fury's gonna come back int the midst of all of this and clean house. Again, I'm very curious to see how it plays out in Iron Man's own book. |
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Post by jayvee on Jul 6, 2006 16:23:37 GMT -5
It doesn't matter where they're doing it... It just matters that they did, and I've seen enough upcoming preview art for an imminent Green Goblin/Spider-Man showdown that the Big M's decision-making process is beginning to annoy the piss out of me. If one side's right, then one side's right so stop trying to make claims that "both sides are right." It's ball-less rhetoric.
Also, the more and more I think about the Hero Hunters, the more the Reg Act falls down because, shouldn't they have Villain Hunters instead? I mean, you're putting all your good guys behind bars because they won't register but it's not like your bad guys are EVER going to register so why not go after superbeings you're NEVER going to get instead of ones you've got a decent shot at converting?
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Post by davidaccampo on Jul 6, 2006 19:55:03 GMT -5
It doesn't matter where they're doing it... It just matters that they did, and I've seen enough upcoming preview art for an imminent Green Goblin/Spider-Man showdown that the Big M's decision-making process is beginning to annoy the piss out of me. If one side's right, then one side's right so stop trying to make claims that "both sides are right." It's ball-less rhetoric. I'm not sure I agree with that. Look at it this way: Henry Gyrich was a problem for the Avengers for many years. Was that then a statement that the whole government was bad? No. SHIELD, since it doesn't have a book or characters that HAVE to be sympathetic, can be changed. It doesn't mean that the sides can't play out between Cap and Iron Man and Spider-man and the like, still creating sympathetic characters. And besides, series like DC's Suicide Squad went to great lengths to demonstrate that villains could be used for good. So Osborne and SHIELD alone don't tip it in the Anti-reg favor. And, look at it another way -- so you've got one villain that's pro-reg. Aren't MOST of the villains anti-reg by default? So if you're saying that pro-reg is depicted as worse because they're using a villain...what does that say about Cap's side, which now has something in common with hundreds of villains? I didn't quite get the Hero Hunters thing? Did I miss that element in another cross-over or something? I just assumed that he Act was going after anyone who is an unregistered person with powers. Doesn't matter if they're good or bad -- the government's criminalized all of it. But I also figure that Iron Man and his group are really still trying to SAVE Cap, and are thus giving them different treatment than the villains, since they KNOW they're good people. That's how I read it anyway. Now, I havent' read all the cross-overs, so there's stuff I don't know about...and I do agree that they're realllllllly coming close to completely favoring anti-reg...but I'm still not convinced. Not in the main series anyway, which is what I'm judging this by. I think they're going to continue to trot the line througout the whole series, with Spider-man falling squarely at the center of the divide. And if they can pull that off, I'll be impressed. |
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Post by jayvee on Jul 6, 2006 20:40:14 GMT -5
In no stretch of the imagination does Henry Gyrich even remotely compare with the kind of things that the Green Goblin's been put away for--let alone the things he did but didn't get caught doing. It's an entirely different animal because at least Gyrich (to my knowledge) was played out as exploiting and manipulating the system... He USED the system. Green Goblin? Not so much.
All I'm saying is, their government seems to be putting more effort into tracking down and incarcerating rogue heroes (Prodigy of WEBSLINGERS fame in FRONTLINE #2 was the first official casualty) than they are going after known villains. I realize that the Thunderbolts are supposedly going after villains--the ones that escaped from the Raft in NEW AVENGERS #1, I think--but every other book in the event seems one hundred percent focused on nailing the good guys.
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